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Thursday, June 19, 2014

My Plant Based Meals 6-18-14


 

On this day I ate no soy products, protein supplements, kale, or cabbage family vegetables at all.  My fruit intake has been lower than in past videos and I ate more brown rice.  

News media and conventional dietitians frequently assert that people eating plant-based diets have trouble getting enough protein, calcium, omega-3 fats, iron, and zinc.  My meals supplied 103 g protein (1.5 g/kg, almost double the RDA for my body mass), 196% (almost double) of my omega-3 requirements, 1052 mg calcium, 37 mg iron (4.65 times my requirements), and 21 mg zinc (almost double the 11 mg requirement for an adult male).   I also got plenty of B12 (more than double the RDA) and I got iodine from sea vegetables cooked with the lentils, although Cronometer does not account for iodine due to inadequate data in the USDA food nutrient database.

15 comments:

Charles Grashow said...

The ONLY reason you're getting B12 is that your drinking FORTIFIED Hemp milk!!

Which also contains D2 which is CRAP!

Don Matesz said...

Charles,

Did you miss my response to your last comment about B12? Here, I'll reproduce it.

Did you know that research has shown that up to 40% of meat-eaters who don't eat fortified foods or supplements are prone to B12 deficiency? http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2000/000802.htm

Did you know that "Many people over age 50 lose the ability to absorb vitamin B12 from foods." http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002403.htm

Did you know that the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Academy of Science recommends that ALL people aged more than 50 years eat foods fortified with B!2 or take a B12 supplement?

"Because 10% to 30% of older people do not absorb food-bound vitamin B12 efficiently, those over 50 years should meet the RDA by eating foods fortified with B12 or by taking a vitamin B12 supplement. Supplementation of 25-100 mcg per day has been used to maintain vitamin B12 levels in older people."www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/926.html

This applies to everyone, not only people on plant based diets.

Makes one wonder why people don't efficiently absorb B12 from animal products, doesn't it? Could it be that we aren't adapted to extracting B12 from meat, etc.?

As for D2, your articulation is impressive. Did you know that D2 occurs naturally in some foods (e.g. mushrooms)?

"Some mushrooms provide vitamin D2 in variable amounts [13,14]. Mushrooms with enhanced levels of vitamin D2 from being exposed to ultraviolet light under controlled conditions are also available." http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional/

We have discussed this before on this blog. There is no evidence that the doses of D2 obtained from drinking one cup of fortified plant-based milk have any harmful effect.


Tracy Minton said...

Charles, you really crack me up. You are really fixated on something. There are so many omnivores taking tons of supplements, and more, prescription drugs. Paleo proponents seem to think you can't get enuf protein from animals, so they sell their curds and whey, and now some sell 'safe starch' Vit K2, and of course the fish oils (despite eating fish)

We could say, "some people are only getting starches because you are buying this can of 'safe starch' or getting EFA's because of taking fish oils.

Or, some only have low cholesterol because of taking statins.

B12 is stored in the system for many years (I have read 30) All people are recommended to supplement after age 50, but none the less...you seem fixated on something. Proving that somehow the plant-based diet is inefficient, when in fact, most omnivores are NOT getting near what they need of folate, and many antioxidants, fiber, and other important micro nutrients.

When people get too obsessed w/ analyzing everything, relying only on science and logic, not believing in anything beyond what the 5 senses can detect. This really is a brain imbalance. Good Rx for these types is to take up drumming, painting, or learn a language. Something that can bring balance to both hemispheres of the brain. The right & the left. It affords us the ability to use a much greater percentage of our potential.

~Tracy

Tracy Minton said...

Charles, you really crack me up. You are really fixated on something. There are so many omnivores taking tons of supplements, and more, prescription drugs. Paleo proponents seem to think you can't get enuf protein from animals, so they sell their curds and whey, and now some sell 'safe starch' Vit K2, and of course the fish oils (despite eating fish)

We could say, "some people are only getting starches because you are buying this can of 'safe starch' or getting EFA's because of taking fish oils.

Or, some only have low cholesterol because of taking statins.

B12 is stored in the system for many years (I have read 30) All people are recommended to supplement after age 50, but none the less...you seem fixated on something. Proving that somehow the plant-based diet is inefficient, when in fact, most omnivores are NOT getting near what they need of folate, and many antioxidants, fiber, and other important micro nutrients.

When people get too obsessed w/ analyzing everything, relying only on science and logic, not believing in anything beyond what the 5 senses can detect. This really is a brain imbalance. Good Rx for these types is to take up drumming, painting, or learn a language. Something that can bring balance to both hemispheres of the brain. The right & the left. It affords us the ability to use a much greater percentage of our potential.

~Tracy

heartlifetalk.com said...

All those carbs I bet your BG is going up and you are likely on the way to T2D..
Protein probably not all complete so you still could be lacking one amino acid and still low protein.
Totally artificial diet I don't believe any culture survived and thrived living on it. Good luck anyways as I never seen a good nmr from the kind of eating you are doing.

Tracy Minton said...

heartlifetalk~ the eyes see what they want to see. A mostly whole food, or minimally processed plant-based diet is the least artificial diet out there. Primary source of protein rather than second hand, as animals get amino acids from plants.

I can only imagine the heart health of the members of your forums if you consider eating plants artificial, and plant proteins incomplete. It seems clear where you source your information.

A lot of assumptions and conjectures. Some people want to learn the truth, some really don't.

Don Matesz said...

Hearlifetalk,

LOL. My blood glucose is fine, I am lean and no metabolic syndrome so no T2D.

If you actually watched the video you would have seen that the meals provided all essential amino acids in excess of requirements by a factor of 2 or more.

Artificial? Every food and nutrient I consumed occurs in nature. Certainly no less natural than meat from enslaved animals.

NMR has no proven value. The only lipid test of proven value in predicting cardiovascular disease risk is LDL-C. If your LDL-c and Total-C are sufficiently low, your particle number does not matter. Both large and small LDL are atherogenic. I suggest brushing up on the science:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGlMJXTpo_s

http://www.plantpositive.com/blog/2012/3/26/the-futility-of-cholesterol-denialism-1-how-much-ldl.html

heartlifetalk.com said...

I can only imagine the heart health of the members of your forums if you consider eating plants artificial, and plant proteins incomplete"

Well a vegan just joined after developing heart disease most likely from the diet he was following!!

Don you are seriously misinformed especially about nmr and time will prove it to you just like other vegans who seem to form a cult belief system not based on the latest science.
So do refined carbs occur in nature and you are eating them and other types of derivative type foods that are artificial and not in their natural state.

Don Matesz said...

Heartlifetalk,

Anecdotes don't have much evidential value, especially when accumulated over the nameless, faceless internet on special interest forums.

"a vegan" How long will it take people like you to understand that THERE IS NO ONE VEGAN DIET.

"most likely from the diet he was following" How did you determine that that was "most likely"? Just because someone gets a heart disease diagnosis while following a vegan diet, does not prove that the diet caused the heart disease.

Heart disease is classified as a long latency disease, meaning that it takes 50-60 years of bad habits to develop the clogging of arteries that causes ischemic heart disease. This means that someone may start a vegan diet late in life while already having latent heart disease.

In addition, as I said, THERE IS NO ONE VEGAN DIET. Some vegans eat well balanced diets, others do not.

Do some vegans get heart disease? Yes, but there are reasons, such as not taking B12 (all B12 supplements are natural from microbes, just as natural as meat), not eating a balanced nutritionally adequate diet, stress (adrenalin is toxic to arteries), having a prior history (just happening to have the diagnosis during vegan diet), and genetic predisposition.

All large scale studies show that plant based diets absent dietary cholesterol (i.e. animal products) provide the best protection against heart disease. As I said, this does not mean that no one will develop heart disease eating a plant based diet, it simply means that the risk is lowest.

There is absolutely 0, NO evidence that eating animals prevents heart disease or diabetes in humans. Anyone who thinks you can prevent heart disease by eating more cholesterol and more saturated fat, and by killing animals unnecessarily is seriously misinformed on both a scientific and moral basis.

Don Matesz said...

The meat you eat is "not in its natural state." How do you think it got carved up? By a knife by a human, i.e. by artifice. It is separated from bones and skin, which is similar to separating the germ of rice from its bran and endosperm and husk. Then most people put it over a fire and cook it. Cooked meat is artificial and not in its natural state if that is defined as the state before human intervention.

Have you heard of the naturalistic fallacy? You might want to read up on it since you have used it in your statements here. Briefly, natural ≠ good, artificial ≠ bad. http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnature.html

The amount of "refined carbs" (defined as carbohydrates removed from whole foods and lacking fiber, vitamins, and mineals, suchs honey, sugar, etc) in my diet is so low as to be of no significance. Nor is there any strong evidence that small amounts of refined sugar promote cardiovascular disease or diabetes, provided the diet is low in cholesterol and saturated fats. Here's some relevant reading for you since you want to follow "the latest science":

"As with most other dietary constituents, long-term trial data relating sugar consumption to the development of CVD events are unavailable. Longitudinal cohort studies relating sugar consumption to CVD are equivocal because of the many potential confounders that cannot be adequately controlled in the analyses. "
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/106/4/523.long

Please provide the peer-reviewed evidence that NMR is superior to total LDL for predicting heart disease risk in a population having a cholesterol range from 100 to 300.

I will in the meantime rely on the document ATP III, the publication of the NHLBI which states (p. II-4):

"Evidence statement:
Multiple lines of evidence
from experimental animals, laboratory investiga-
tions, epidemiology, genetic forms of hypercholes-
terolemia, and controlled clinical trials indicate a
strong causal relationship between elevated LDL
cholesterol and CHD (A1, B1, C1).
Recommendation:
LDL cholesterol should
continue to be the primary target of cholesterol-
lowering therapy."

And (p II-1):

"ATP I and ATP II identified LDL as the primary target
for cholesterol-lowering therapy, and ATP III continues
this emphasis. This designation is based on a wide vari-
ety of observational and experimental evidence
amassed over several decades from animal, pathologi-
cal, clinical, genetic, and different types of population
studies. Many earlier studies measured only serum total
cholesterol, although most of total cholesterol is con-
tained in LDL. Thus, the robust relationship between
total cholesterol and CHD found in epidemiological
studies strongly implies that an elevated LDL is a
powerful risk factor. Subsequent studies have shown
that LDL is the most abundant and clearly evident
atherogenic lipoprotein. The role of LDL in atherogen-
esis is confirmed by genetic disorders in which serum
LDL cholesterol is markedly increased in the absence
of other CHD risk factors. Notable examples of such
genetic disorders are homozygous and heterozygous
forms of familial hypercholesterolemia; in both,
atherogenesis is markedly accelerated. Finally, a causal
role for LDL has been corroborated by controlled
clinical trials of LDL lowering; recent trials especially
have revealed a striking reduction in incidence of
CHD."

Read it for yourself: http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cholesterol/atp3full.pdf

There is more to preventing HEART disease than diet. The HEART is the seat of love and compassion. There is nothing compassionate about killing innocent living beings. You might avoid death from physical heart disease, but you have to harden your heart to continue killing innocent animals, or you condemn some butcher to harden his heart. As I said, there is no evidence that eating animals reduces the risk of heart disease, and plenty that it increases the risk. Choose wisely.

Aaron said...

Don, I was just wondering, do you think taking a methylcobalamin supplement once a week at 500mcg would be enough? Normally even once a week is enough to make me break out and wanna take an amount that is enough. Honestly I'd rather take a supplement at 50mcg because we probably only absorb a faction of that ammount

Aaron said...

Lastly, let's say you have a multiple polymorphisms that make it so that you only convert 20-25% of beta carotene to retinol. Does the literature say those people can still get along just fine without at pre-formed retinol?

Charles Grashow said...

"NMR has no proven value. The only lipid test of proven value in predicting cardiovascular disease risk is LDL-C. If your LDL-c and Total-C are sufficiently low, your particle number does not matter."

SO - My LDL-C is 47 and my TC is 100. I take 10mgs/day Atorvastatin and supplements designed to reduce TC and LDL-C

I'm older than you and I workout 6 days/week (cardio + weights)

I also consume full fat raw goat milk, goat milk/sheep milk yogurt/kefir, 1 pastured duck egg/day as well as nuts, seeds, fruit (fresh/frozen), fresh veggies, etc.

SO - just who is healthier - you or me??

Charles Grashow said...

"Did you know that the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Academy of Science recommends that ALL people aged more than 50 years eat foods fortified with B!2 or take a B12 supplement?"

Is this why you use B12 fortified soy/hemp milk??

As to D2
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/01/16/dont-rely-on-fortified-foods.aspx

Don Matesz said...

Charles,

You said to me: "The ONLY reason you're getting B12 is that your drinking FORTIFIED Hemp milk!!"

My reply to you: The MAIN reason you have low TC is that you're taking a statin drug!!

I wonder how you can think my diet is questionable because some or the majority of my B12 comes from fortified foods, but believe that your diet is better even though you admit that you "take 10mgs/day Atorvastatin and supplements designed to reduce TC and LDL-C."

By what twist of thought does my use of B12 fortified foods warrant a question mark, while you are taking a handful of supplements, including Atorvastatin, in order to maintain a low cholesterol despite eating a diet rich in animal flesh, eggs, and milk?

As for who is healthier, I will let Natural Law be the judge. In my view, there is a lot more to HEART health, and health in general, than having low lipids induced by supplements, and it spans beyond the physical to the moral and spiritual.

I use hemp and soy milks for enjoyment and many nutritional benefits other than B12. The B12 fortification is icing on the cake.

Mercola? LOL. He didn't provide a single reference for any of his claims about D2 nor did he specify the dose required for the claimed adverse effects. Toxicity is dependent on dose. In my 6-25-14 meals post I provided references to peer-reviewed experts on VT-D, who provide no evidence that doses of 200-400 IU of D2 are harmful; the lowest observed adverse effect level is 500 times more D2 than contained in one cup of these beverages. http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2014/06/my-plant-based-meals-6-25-14.html

Further, he is telling people to not rely on fortified foods for D, and I don't. I rely on sun exposure.